There seems to be a major flaw in our capitalistic marketplace.
The anti-capitalism crowd should have starved and died in the gutter. Not only do they not starve, the bounty of our harvest allows them to grow fat and abuse us with their mouths full.
This is a serious flaw and should be addressed.
Suggestions?
116 comments:
Paul said to Timothy that, "He will not work, will not eat." That has a very salutary effect on work ethics!
tmw
it is a small price for us to pay to be RIGHT. we know Who wins in the end.
i'm reminded of david who questioned the Lord in the psalms, i believe, as to why the evil and wicked prospered while those who knew and lived properly appeared to fail miserably.
our day will come.
To everything there is a season...
tis the season to end handouts Beamish.
Perhaps its time for another Great Leap Forward?
It will at least increase the sales of Mao's Little Red Book....
Nanc- Asaph also questioned G*D! Psalm 73 is a great reminder that there is more to life than this time on this mortal coil! PTL, for that Truth! If this was all there is, I'd throw a temper tantrum. It isn't fair, but personally I don't want fair! I want mercy, thank you very much!
G00d morning, G*D bless and Maranatha!
tmw
Restore capitalism to the marketplace. The divide the poor into two. Deserving/Undeserving. The problem w/the current system is that they treat the poor as one. The widow becomes the moral equivalent of a drunkard. Marvin Olasky, "The Tragedy of American Compassion".
It's like treating "self-esteem" in an educational setting as if it were one. Rousseau proved it was two. Amour de soi and amour propre.
from Wikipedia: Society's negative influence on otherwise virtuous men centers, in Rousseau's philosophy, on its transformation of amour de soi, a positive self-love, into amour-propre, or pride. Amour de soi represents the instinctive human desire for self preservation, combined with the human power of reason. In contrast, amour-propre is not natural but artificial and forces man to compare himself to others, thus creating unwarranted fear and allowing men to take pleasure in the pain or weakness of others. Rousseau was not the first to make this distinction; it had been invoked by, among others, Vauvenargues.
Of course, Hesiod made a further distinction of amour propre...in the form of strife (envy to keep up w/Jones) and harsh strife (use force/legal system to take from Jones).
Harsh Strife via the legal system is an anti-capitalist's preferred method...but should times grow hard, he'll use the "physical force" of tyranny.
ps - Had this distinction been kept, the anti-capitalist crowd would have been too busy earning their bread to plot ways of stealing it via the legal system/government.
mornin' farmer!
did you have a wondy visit with your eaglet?
Indeed I did. Seven weeks to graduation... I can't wait!
btw - You can remain a muse if you like. Muses live above the eyebrows... graces mostly below. And you're kinda cute above the eyebrows!
Besides... I'm not ready for Graces. I haven't danced long enough with muses, and so would likely step on their feet.
It just dawned on me that I need to set this blog to my favorites at home, hence the explanation why I hardly post here.
and to think, i thought you danced on air, farmer!
steve? my favorites HAVE favorites - takes me the better part of a morning to get through them.
i'm doing research - yeah, research...
OT:
I couldn't get Blogger to accept the Nanc-ified Beamish avatar, so the picture now replaces the Presidential portrait on my blog.
Makes for a nice Halloween costume too. I'm Nancbeamish for Halloween.
Trickertreet, mofo!
I'll never bet against the Chargers again.
hehehe
Back OT, sorta,
Social Security pop quiz:
Q:Which Political Party took Social Security from the
independent "Trust Fund" and put it into the General fund so that Congress could spend it?
A: It was Lyndon Johnson and the Democratic Party controlled House and Senate.
Q: Which Political Party eliminated the income tax
deduction for Social Security (FICA) withholding?
A: The Democratic Party.
Q: Which Political Party started taxing Social Security annuities?
A: The Democratic Party, with Al Gore casting the "tie-breaking" deciding vote as President of the
Senate, while he was Vice President of the US.
Q: Which Political Party decided to start giving annuity payments to immigrants?
A: Jimmy Carter and the Democratic Party.
Immigrants moved into this country, and at age 65,
began to receive Social Security payments! The Democratic Party gave these payments to them,
even though they never paid a dime into it!
Bread and circuses, Mr. B.
tmw
I want to find a way to implement "He will not work, will not eat."
Why should moochers be allowed to live off the rest of us? Furthermore, moochers despise the hand that feeds them--also called the-rich-uncle syndrome.
beamish? did you come here just to pist warren off?
aow - i'd say G-d had the best plan - he meant for us to take care of one another of our own volition and desire to do so. the government stepped in and made it mandatory. that's when people become obstinate.
could you imagine how simply simple life would be if every single person held to this view? would we have a need for war? social programs?
that's precisely why everyone should make sure very few of their tax dollars go to the government - take care of those around you, in your neighborhood through charitable organizations.
buy guns and ammo with the money you save.
Nanc,
I didn't mean to make Warren angry.
I'm just saying that behind every problem America has faced, be it domestic or foreign policy, there's Democrats drooling and itching to make them worse.
oh, he won't be angry at you! this just be what he needs to set him into rant mode - perhaps we should stand back?
oh, and before i forget:
SOCIALISM SUCKS!
the life out of the rest of us.
To quote the bumber sticker: Work harder! Millions on welfare depend on you!
Let me be monkey in the middle for a second. While i don't beleive in Handouts, i do believe Government has a responsibility in a civilized society to take care of the Poor, elderly and disable, certainly no one would advocate, just because a Parent is screwed up that kid should just starve, or if someone is unable to work, they are just a downer on society, let them die who cares!
The great thing about Capitalism, is even if you disagree with the approach, you can gain from it, all those Hollywood millionaires talk about helping the poor, yet none of them would live a day in the shoes of a poor person.
I'll agree with you only if you agree that there are two types of poor people.
Deserving
& Undeserving.
The government doesn't need to take care of all poor people. Drunks, drug addicts, and criminals should be left to fend for themselves. Young girls who get themselves into trouble... the same. Marriage is also a welfare program. The government needs to stop undermining it.
Here, here FJ! I guess I would fall into the deserving, but I have no plans of staying there. Since my survivor benefits end next month, I have to go to work even though my daughter is only going to be 16. I homeschool and she has dyslexia. She needs me at home, but that isn't an option. Even if the benefits continued till she is 18, I would have gone back to work, it's just my "work" isn't considered "productive" at this point. I have a change coming up, Nanc, Donal and Morgan know about it. i am asking for prayer, I'll e-mail everyone to inform you of my options, or lack of them!
Good morning, G*D bless and Maranatha1
tmw
fj & tmw - and that's where the family SHOULD come in! it was a perfect plan until the FAMILY became a pain to some.
social security should be for those deserving ONLY. we have two friends who graduated h.s. and could not read. one went on to be a very successful businessman and the other reveled in his ignorance and is on ssi(?) without EVER having paid a dime into the system.
this is so not fair to those of us who have worked our tails off and deserve the meager allowance they give when one retires - as it probably won't even be there when the time comes.
I have been abandoned by both sides of the family because of our stand for Christ! My Mother's family doesn't consider me "one of them" because I was adopted, my late's family because of Christ. My late church did help us because of the situation. I was doing pro bono counselling, helping with the prayer ministry and the church council. I would help with my tithes, offerings and time. So, I'm not a lazy sitter but am just not getting a paycheck. I have paid into ssi,and I will start contributing again! It's all about timing!
As for those who "will" not work, there is a huge difference between them and those who cannot. I cannot, for now, but it is a temporary situation!
tmw
There always was, and always will be, a widow and orphans fund... with or without government. People have no problem voluntarily reaching into their pockets to help those deserving of help, those that through no fault of their own, cannot help themselves. This is what community-based churches do very well.
The family is no longer as necessary as it once was, do largely to the fact that the need for defense against others has largely been replaced by government (POLICE/COURTS) and against outsiders by the miliary. This, and the general economic prosperity we all enjoy that enables most people the ability to find both suitable and comfortable employment. It has never been easier to provide for ones-self and one's family as it has been in the last 50 years in America. Very few people should need any sort of government help, but the fact that so many so, is indicative of a larger problem.
i know that, tmw - the widows and orphans were a very big part of the picture Jesus painted.
there have been times we could have used a hand out and our families for some reason or another could not help us - nor could the system.
my statement above was not pointed at you - it was just a general.
sometimes all we have is our time to give and that's priceless.
farmer? is that ichabod crane?
...only when I look in the mirror.
Sorry, I got defensive, I still do that and it's a fault I need to confess and stop doing! It's not about me.
tmw
But you're both right!
well, i know it's a character in one of the movies we have here!
...most people see me like this... and I have yet to don my Holloween costume!
YOU'RE INVISIBLE?!?
...I know things are difficult tmw. I'm probably the last person that should be saying that we are better off for the struggle. But it does make us stronger. It isn't fun or fair. It just is, IMO.
...hmmm not in my browser... but I guess I could be a ghost. That would make sense...
I AM A GHOST!
Spoookeyyyy.
it is in our nature to nurture and take care of one another. i would do all in my power to help a person in genuine need. it would go against everything i am to turn my back.
what's ironic to me about welfare and social programs in general are the democrats who bitch about them incessantly - like they have no clue as to who supports them!
my family in californistan, who btw, are hard left go on and on about the lowlifes on welfare, in drug treatment programs and such on our tax dollars and they believe it is the conservative's fault.
...unless of course it's one of theirs on a particular social program - that's alright in their eyes - freaky-deakin' hypocrites!
FJ- I have been brought by G*D through so much, that I am excited about the changes HE is bringing into my life! Struggles are nothing new to me, and when I look back and see what G*D hath wrought with the trials, struggles, failures, setbacks, I no longer feel it's unfair, I've gainned more than I have suffered! Plus, the weight of Glory set before me is greater than the weight of this life! I have an Eternity to enjoy them, and I want to hear my Father and Big Brother say, "Welcome Home, you good and faithful servant!" HA! I like the sound of it!
tmw
He does provide. We would be nowhere without Him.
You got it, Nanc! I have taken people in need to the store and bought them food and cleaning supplies, etc. Right then and there! One lady I helped, I took to Sam's Club and got her a whole lot of stuff, she was such a wise buyer I really felt blessed by watching her prudence! More bang for the buck. I love helping people like that!
tmw
FJ i totally agree, Drug Addicts and Alcholhoics, don't deserve help from the Government, if they want to go into rehab, than i'm all for helping them, but giving them money just so they can support their addiction, no way not in my America!
Some of you know, many do not.
For several years I did social work for the Society of St Vincent dePaul, first as a member then as an officer.
The Society is different from most charities. By rule, a person to person visit is supposed to be made by two members, preferably, one female, one male. This visit is supposed to be made for each time a person requests help, then the visitors return to their society meeting report the information gathered and give their recommendation on what is to be done.
Although it isn't common knowledge, the opinion of the Society carries a tremendous amount of weight with other charitable organizations.
First Call/United Way, refer all request for clothing, food, rent and utility bills to the Society. In many places, the Salvation Army, predicates all of their non-emergency assistance upon the proof of the Societies help. Help from Catholic Charities must first be routed through the Society for referral.
The reason for this is simple. The personal visit insures that there is an actual person requesting help and that the situation is as they present it. (or close enough).
A few things I found out from experience:
There are a lot of people out there that work way harder getting out of work than they would if they simply got a job.
There are a lot of people that believe they are entitled to a free ride on the rest of us.
The people that demand help the most are the ones that need it least.
These people network together. They know the scams and how to run them.
Excellent Warren!
When i was little we were really poor, no TV in the living room, i had a radio in my bed room, i didn't know what this thing called Cable was, and i could not even phantom the idea of a satellite dish. New School Clothes, i often wonder, why do people need new clothes for School. I remember being asked once, where did you get that shirt? My only reply, my mom got it.
Many times my mom depended on the help of Good Fellows and St. Vincent De Paul, oddly enough the Building my Church is renovating into the new Church is a old St. Vincent De Paul building.
Having grew up on the bad side of town, i have seen people that have taken advantage of the system, and than i see people who really need help, who can't get it. I remember Justin telling me a story about a friend of his who was in desperate need of help, and went down to the local Welfare office, and he was denied, he was so upset. Justin who worked in the Government for 20 years, went down to find out, and one of the workers told him in private, it's pretty simple "he's just the wrong color". This is a reality of our welfare program, people take advantage of it, and those who really need don't get help. I believe that this situation should be handled like you would any Employee/Employer situation, sneak in check ups, people on welfare get money from the government, so i support social workers making unannounced visits, right now they tell you before hand. Right now our welfare program does not work.
warren?
BOO!
GAK GAK, the fright was to much to bear. I think I'm having a coronary!
.... Sorry, it was just gas.
;^)
i already had my coronary today thanks to beamish. i'm okay now, but my family is still under observation.
:[ [;
smartarse!
We were poor when I was small but I didn't know it.
Six of us, (my grandparents, parents, my brother and I), lived in a four room shotgun house. Sometimes, when the flood waters came up, four more people would move in with us.
I thought it was fun! :^)
I wore my cousins hand-me-downs.
We actually had A TV. One of my uncles was a TV repair man that worked for Sears and Roebuck. He made sure that his parents, my grandparents, had one. Our neighbors used to come over and watch.
The point is, we helped each other.
There are people out there that need help. We made sure they got whatever they needed.
I have some great scammer stories.
my uncle had a scammer. we could hear the police coming before they knew they were coming.
EB- Have you gotten brain damage from breathing an oxygen/nitrogen mix under pressure for too long?
Nanc, has been making the rounds I see. How much can my heart take? I need to eat some Taco soup, just to straighten out my psyche.
It's not poverty that's the problem, it's the mindset of entitlement. Marxist in philosophy. I don't have, you do, so gimme!
There are somethings that are more valuble than "stuff" and too many have discounted them. Unless they need the close family ties and they aren't there! My 2 and I have a very close relationship and if the cost was "stuff", I'm wealthier than Bill Gates!
Good morning, G*D bless and Maranatha!
tmw
Nanc,
Send the dems to cuba to live under communist rule. They will come crawling back, begging on hands and knees.
and asking the military to bail them out, because apparently people like mayself aren't smart enough to do anything else.
i love scammer stories - having worked for welfare fraud at one time - i've heard them all!
"the dog at my birth certificate!"
blah-blah-blah!
we just had to turn the scammer down so we didn't wake my father. I loved how the little red lights would blink on and off....on and off...on and off....
EB- Now I understand...oh dear!
Good morning, G*D bless and Maranatha!
tmw
it was the blinking lights huh tmw?
We had three mini-scammers in our house. We could when they were ON by the openning of their mouths and the movement of their lips....
Tough Question. Who decides who is deserving or undeserving?
What are our moral responsibilities?
"He will not work, will not eat" harsh but fair.
Who decides?
The guy doing the giving, of course. It wouldn't be moral otherwise.
Who better?
...this is precisely what Madison meant by separation of church and state. It wasn't the state's job to do the deciding, because state's don't have anything to give that they don't take first. It would be immoral for the state to decide. It had to be voluntary and from the heart to be moral, not forced.
The state has no business trying to perform good works. That's what people and churches are for.
Boo!
ahhhhhhhhhhh!
Nanc I'm posting again without reading the thread, but for a change I know the answer to the question at hand.
The astonishing amount of spoiled brat ingratitude is not a "fault" of capitalism. Our incredible productivity and freedom of speech and travel--don't tell McCain--has enabled a leisure class even bigger than we witnessed in the roaring twenties. True, they are sometimes enough to make you wanna vomit, but we HAVE to live with it if we are gonna be consistent.
Here's a forinstance. The left has made Paris Hilton exhibit ONE in their fight to reenstate the 80% level of the death tax. This is one of the most horrible taxes you could EVER conjur. A family works their whole life to amass a fortune and when the patriarch or matriarch dies the entire business has to be sold just to pay the vulturous taxman.
Paris stands to profit handsomely when her parents die. She's easily despicable, but it's only right that she get her fortune.
Morgan
Nanc I'm posting again without reading the thread, but for a change I know the answer to the question at hand.
The astonishing amount of spoiled brat ingratitude is not a "fault" of capitalism. Our incredible productivity and freedom of speech and travel--don't tell McCain--has enabled a leisure class even bigger than we witnessed in the roaring twenties. True, they are sometimes enough to make you wanna vomit, but we HAVE to live with it if we are gonna be consistent.
Here's a forinstance. The left has made Paris Hilton exhibit ONE in their fight to reenstate the 80% level of the death tax. This is one of the most horrible taxes you could EVER conjur. A family works their whole life to amass a fortune and when the patriarch or matriarch dies the entire business has to be sold just to pay the vulturous taxman.
Paris stands to profit handsomely when her parents die. She's easily despicable, but it's only right that she get her fortune.
Morgan
Sorry about the double post, nothing I say is THAT important. I'm already self-flagellating for the trespass. :-)
Morgan
warren needs to interject more, morgan - this is his post, not mine. i, however, believe EVERYBODY gets EXACTLY what they have coming to them in the end. there's no use being bitter about it.
of course, paris will also get what she deserves. i only know that if my children were as monetarily set up, they'd be extremely charitable.
they struggle with the things of the world through peer pressure and know what awaits them on the side of eternity. some people just live in the here and now.
for instance, the other day our daughter and i went to a trendy little boutique for girls age 3-18 - the blue jeans (european sizes only) started at $75.00! she couldn't get me out of there fast enough - when we got to our vehicle and as she was gasping for her next breath - she asked, "mama - do people REALLY pay that much money for their little girls jeans?" i replied, "unfortunately, yes."
we've gone to second hand stores and purchased these same jeans for $3.00 a pair.
what's important? that's the question i believe warren's asking - or at least one of them.
there is a lesson to be learned each and every day if we pay attention.
AC says: "Who decides who is deserving or undeserving?
What are our moral responsibilities?"
Each of us must decide and its not really that hard of a decision. Any error should be made on the side of compassion. When there are children involved there should be extra care taken.
Unfortunately, welfare cheats and scammers use their children as excuses and shields. They pass on their "knowledge" to their children.
I know of a "family", four generations of women and their children, no men. Each generation was on welfare their entire adult life.
Suplemented housing, medicade, AFDC, WIC, foodstamps, assorted dissabilities, (bad backs, mental, et al).
None of them saw a thing wrong with what they did. They believed that it was their "right".
Our moral responsibilities? Is it moral to allow them to cheat and steal?
I guess blogger needed burped. It seems to be working now.
Unfortunately, it can be difficult if you live in an area that has more and more affluence! G*D has blessed us with sales, and more sales...The consignment shops in our area are for grown women, not for teens. Oh well, you know where the good shopping spots are, I'll rely on your recommendations! The best place for second hand clothes for teens, stinks! Literally, it is very dirty clothes stinky! I wonder what is "living" in the clothes! Ugh!
Good morning, G*D bless and Maranatha1
tmw
Leaving for the hospital...
mz COOL!
don't worry about me, madze - i'll be okay...
It's okay, Nanc, remember breathe in-breathe out, breathe in-breathe out...Keep it up, slow, steady, controlled breaths!
It, will be okay!
tmw
don't be blaming your man either nanc you had to help...focus
It's almost the magic moment folks!
i'm blamin' my man, elbro!
if he wasn't so dayamed handsome...
Warren-
My suggestion would be to make it more difficult to become dependent on the State.
..others appear to be illegal at the moment.
Bens says:
"My suggestion would be to make it more difficult to become dependent on the State."
Ben, I agree but the dependency is more of a symptom instead of the problem.
The dependence has become a form of the old political patronage system.
How did Duncy miss this thread?
Beak,
I imagine when the polls close, the votes are counted, and it's clear that Republicans still control the House and Senate, Ducky will be back wondering why the politically defining result of the "Information Age" is that an informed populace swings Republican.
Then we can remind him of what he's be thus far too stupid to realize himself:
Leftists are morons.
beak - plucky didn't miss the thread - he was just afraid tmw would serve him up with some wild rice - right after she tenderized him with one of her cast iron skillets!
beamish? - stop being so nice to our foul feathered friend!
I like Brown rice, but i can't stand white rice, it's like pasty.
oh Rob that was a good one...
Wild duck I would tackle, apples and onions with brown/wild rice herb mixture. Slow roasting to tenderize.
plucky? Domesticated duck is to fatty.
Good morning, G*D bless and Maranatha!
tmw
Sounds good nanc...even though I prefer the domesticated species. It has to be cooked slower so that the grease will have time to drip.
well, if that were my recipe, i'd say thanks, but it was the nice twin's recipe, tmw.
THE PLUCKSTER HAS THE DRIP?!?
AC- I'm sending you into MadZ's corner with him! You guys can't even read? OY!
You stuff the duck(in this case, I don't want a drippy, plucky) with cut up onions and apples, with somemore around the roasting bird.
tmw
Have you seen the tv commercial from Dontvote.com which is sponsored by AARP? It is designed to scare the oldsters into just staying home because the heartless republicans will take away your social security.
i did see that, cube and it is tasteless at best!
aarp is so far to the left they're about to fall off the edge of the table.
I have seen the commerical, i think it's message is don't vote until you know all the facts, which is actually a good message.
Um Nanc, Warren...I have a new blog up. Please blogroll me when you get a chance.
Hope all is well with you.
Hi Florian, I've updated your link to reflect your new blog.
Thanks Warren--I do appreciate it. What do you think of Rugar's?
A co-worker of mine wants to sell me a 9mm Rugar. The thing is I've never shot an MP style gun with a hammer on it. Seems a bit awkward to me.
flo - i tried sending warren a subliminal message last week on posting another gun-type article - he ignored me - either that or my subliminal coordinates were messed up.
i'll say that the 9mm is my weapon of choice. easy to handle and holds alot of ammo! we'll get one as soon as i remember to remember to get one.
otherwise, we'll have to make do with the weapons we have...
Nanc you and Warren need to do another gun post--PLEASE! I'm trying to decide which will be my next one. What do you mean "you'll have to make due with the weapons you have"?
Do you think if the Dems sweep congress guns will be banned?
I may have to go on a shopping spree this weekend!
I'll get a good gun post together this weekend.
I own three Ruger pistols and one rifle. They are well made extremely reliable and good looking.
To tell you the truth, I've never given the external hammer a thought. I know that some people claim they tend to hang up on clothes and such, but I've never had any problem and the spur on an external hammer can usually be replaced with a spurless hammer if the pistol functions in double action or double/single action mode.
Ask your friend to let you take the gun to the range, buy a box of shells and shoot the crap out of it. If you like the way it fits your hand, it shoots well and to your point of aim and the price is right. buy it!
I'm not particularly fond of 9mm, but its just a personal thing.
I wonder if he'll let me take it to the range. He's wanting $250 for it (includes holster and 2 clips). I'll probably take your advice and see if I can take it to the range and like you say "shoot the hell out of it".
flo - i wouldn't even pass that deal up! why i'd buy that gun and keep it under my pillow - i want it!
did you ask the pertinent questions? how old it is? approximate hours or rounds of shooting time?
after a little research, if it's good and clean - $250. would be a great deal - of course, warren is the expert in this area.
Nanc- If I had 5-10 acres, could I set up my own shooting range, private of course?
tmw
silly girl! this is arkansas - not california...
the laws out in most counties are quite lenient, however if you live within city limits i don't believe you can set up a shooting range.
big brother hasn't yet heard of arkansas and we want to keep it that way. it's bad enough when northerners (that's what they call anybody north, west and east of here) come here and say, "well, we did it this way in north dakota."
there is a bumper sticker here which reads "we don't care how you did it where you came from!"
Entirely correct thinking too! I'm from south of y'all so I should be okay. The answer to that comment here is, SO?
tmw
Here in AZ you can shoot a machine gun in the desert if you want. We rolled up on some people who had an old WWII with tripod mounted on their SUV and two guys shooting it off the roof. We didn't hang around.
when my husband's set up targets for practice he sets them up against the side of a hill with a bale of hay as the backdrop. he and the kids are very safe with weapons and the kids are only allowed to shoot the twenty-twos.
i don't like to shoot at things that are sitting still...;[
The 9mm Ruger he's trying to sell to me Nanc hasn't been shot much at all. I could tell it was really clean. So I'll wait and see.
i don't like to shoot at things that are sitting still
That's why I tie my plinking cans to my cat.
flo - you'll kick yourself if you don't get it!
beamish - did i ever tell you about the stray tom who'd come onto our deck every stinking evening here a few years ago and spray EVERYTHING?
one night i'd had it and while doing dishes laying in wait for that tomcat with the 22 rifle by my side - lo and behold here he comes - i'd already removed the screen from the window - i must have startled him because as i was aiming, he started running - PLINK! straight through the back of his shoulder into his neck!
did that stop him? no, it did not - his adrenaline kicked in and he kept running - well, i couldn't have a wounded cat on my conscience and the sun was rapidly going down - nancpop said, "what have you done woman?"
i told him and handed him the gun and said, "i think you'll find him up the hill by the fencerow." sure enough, when he got there that's where that cat finally ran out of adrenaline.
when he came back, he said, "how'd you do that?"
determination, a good eye, and complete disdain for spraying tomcats.
your idea's very good, however and i must remember that.
Nanc,
I was kidding!
Welcome to the South, though :)
beamish - i did that when i was living in californistan!
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